Rendez-vous #24 with Lindsey Stroud

Rendez-vous #24  with Lindsey Stroud

Lindsey  produces the audio-podcast Voices of Vapers. She is a state government relations manager at The Heartland Institute and a policy expert on tobacco harm reduction.

 

Q1. I encourage every reader to look closely at the list of the podcasts you produced and take time to listen as your guests include many of the most active US advocates. There is not a regular weekly like schedule. How do you decide to produce/air an interview? Have you considered trying a more regular schedule?

 

Lindsey Stroud : Ideally, I wanted a weekly podcast, but with legislative sessions going on, and other duties at my job, it was impossible to record like that. A lot of the state legislation can change in an instant, so in late December/early January, I had a lot of time to touch base with key persons in the states, but looking back, I think we were more optimistic before seeing all the legislation that was introduced. That being said, I’m always looking for hosts, and I’m trying to get it back to a scheduled/regular thing.

 

Q2. I have one technical question if it's not infringing on your trade secrets. Can you explain how you record the interviews? Are you using skype or a skype like system? Special mikes? No editing (except to eventually insert an ad?

 

Lindsey Stroud : We use Skype and call landlines. We have microphones that we use and amazing AV team that edits the podcast prior to publication.

 

Q3. Listening to the interviews one realizes how much the vaping industry is still made of many very small, mom and pop and medium size businesses (vape shops or juice manufacturers) that have nothing to do with Big Tobacco. They fear that heavy and inadequate regulations will kill them. Could that happen?

 

Lindsey Stroud : Yes, it very well could, but it’d be interesting to see how it plays out. A lot of the e-liquid manufacturers started out with DYI liquids, making their own e-liquids and sharing among their vaping friends. Their friends liked these, and a lot of these companies then decided to start e-liquid businesses. The FDA has hinted around banning flavors in e-cigarettes until manufacturers have been approved a pre-market tobacco application, which can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars per flavor and nicotine level. I imagine that should some Prohibition-like ban arise from US public health, many of these companies will just go underground, but it will severely limit the amount of smokers that have not embraced e-cigarettes as a tool to quit smoking.

Moreover, this year we’re seeing a lot of taxation, some of it that is blatantly a revenue grab and some introduced to “combat youth vaping.” I looked at the numbers for Pennsylvania, which imposed a 40 percent wholesale floor tax in 2016. Pennsylvania conducts bi-annual surveys of PA youth (Pennsylvania Annual Youth Survey) and I found that vaping among high schoolers actually increased from 2015 to 2017, indicating that taxes don’t act as a deterrent against youth vaping use.

I think at this point, there is a lot of alarmism related to the erroneously titled “youth vaping epidemic,” that is driving really bad legislation. And a lot of it will have a great impact on brick-and-mortar, “mom and pop” retailers despite the fact that FDA tobacco compliance data finds convenience stores a significantly larger proportion of tobacco sales 

 

Q4. There is a huge flow of misinformation and propaganda demonizing all things vaping. How best to try to respond and damage control? I feel the advocates have not been able to organize a structure that would effectively disseminate their point of view in various formats (text, audio, video). There is not one collective clearinghouse where people could easily connect. Is this because of a lack of resources compared to the budget and staff of the groups financed by Bloomberg Philanthropies (CTFK, Vital Strategies) and other health associations (ACS, Heart, Lung etc)? Do you see ways to better organize? Can you talk about THR4life? 

 

Lindsey Stroud : Unfortunately, due to American public health and the mass media, there is a lot of alarmism surrounding e-cigarettes in the United States. It seems like lawmakers are bringing forth policies based off of a minute number of studies and this “youth vaping epidemic.” Yes, youth vaping numbers have increased, but there isn’t strong enough existing data to warrant prohibition-style legislation, like flavor bans, for example. Moreover, the current data on youth e-cigarette use doesn’t distinguish whether kids are vaping every single day, or if they happened to vape a couple of times at a party.

I think many lawmakers erroneously believe that Big Tobacco introduced e-cigarettes to get kids hooked to nicotine and eventually combustible cigarettes, but that couldn’t be further from the truth. E-cigarettes were first introduced in 2007. It wasn’t until 2012 that a tobacco company (Lorillard) purchased an e-cigarette company (Blu eCigs). Essentially, the tobacco industry was forced to respond to this consumer-driven disruptive technology as smokers demanded safer alternatives to traditional cigarettes.

There does seem to be a lot of issues in the industry in America and a lack of cohesion among various groups, but that has always existed. The only issue is that this year, it seems to be more apparent as there are over 200 bills in state legislatures that introduce taxes, prohibitions and regulations including Tobacco-21. The state associations are doing an amazing job at working against these, and in the few cases, for the good bills, but it definitely is going to have to take a lot more work to educate lawmakers on the benefits of e-cigarettes. Like I mentioned above, many lawmakers erroneously believe that e-cigarettes are just as harmful as combustible cigarettes and that Big Tobacco just wants to get people addicted. Unfortunately, America only has about 3 million smokers that have used e-cigarettes to quit smoking, and over 34 million American adults that continue to smoke, and more Americans are believing that e-cigarettes aren’t less harmful. It is imperative that stakeholders in the industry, whether they own a manufacturing company or a small Mom-and-Pop vape shop, or even if they’re just a former 40-year smoker who have used e-cigarettes to quit smoking – they all need to educate policymakers that are deciding legislation.

Tobacco Harm Reduction for Life (THR4Life) is a 501(c)3 that seeks to educate smokers on tobacco harm reduction – including smokeless tobacco and snus, e-cigarettes, and even nicotine replacement therapy. Tobacco harm reduction is tobacco harm reduction and all products should be recognized for their potential to help people quit smoking. We seek to educate persons in all 50 states and follow local, state and federal legislation. I was not involved in the creation of it, that would go to President Kevin Price. I joined about a year after THR4Life was founded. Other board members include Kevin Crowley, Skip Murray, and Jen Hoban. 

Q5. What's next? How do you see the future of tobacco harm reduction in the US? Are you optimistic?

 

Lindsey Stroud : I was much more optimistic during the 2018 legislative session, we definitely did not see the amount of bad legislation that came our way in 2019.

Youth vaping must be addressed, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has pretty much declared a war on e-cigarettes until the number of youth using e-cigarettes decreased. One would think that legislation introduced this year would help deter youth from using e-cigarettes, it doesn’t. For example, many of the state bills increasing the age to purchase tobacco products (including e-cigarettes) from 18 to 21 year of age do not include penalties to minors in possession of said tobacco products. Similar issues with kids using e-cigarettes in schools – most (if not all) US high schools have a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to possessing alcohol on school grounds, yet there is no real punishment when students are caught with cigarettes and vaping devices.

Another bad piece of legislation is this idea that taxing e-cigarettes will make kids less likely to use e-cigarettes. Lawmakers fail to understand that most kids obtain tobacco products by relying on a person that can legally purchase the product to obtain it for them, often at a higher price than that product. As mentioned before, the 40 percent wholesale floor tax in Pennsylvania did not help stop youth e-cigarette use, but it did, however, such down 120 vape shops in the Commonwealth, or a third of Pennsylvania’s brick-and-mortar vape retail shops.

Unfortunately, while dealing with state legislation, e-cigarette manufacturers still must comply with the FDA’s deeming regulations, including their findings of harmful and potentially harmful constituents in the next year and submitting their premarket tobacco product applications by August 8, 2021. What e-cigarette companies do then will really determine the future of the e-cigarette industry.

I’m always optimistic, just not looking forward to the increasing number of bad legislation.

Q6. Is there anything else you would like to add?

 

Lindsey Stroud : My advice to vapers in the United States is to get in touch with your local, state and federal representatives. I'm amazed by some of the folks in the industry who are doing great things, but I'm more amazed by the inaction among the estimated 10 million American adult vapers (and the 3 million that have quit smoking). 

 

Currently, lawmakers are drafting legislation imagining a weak kid in Big Tobacco's grasp. It is important for lawmakers to understand how adults are using these products to quit smoking and stay cigarette free. 

 

Thank you Lindsey for having taken the time for this rendez-vous.

 

More from Lindsey in this 70 minutes interview on April 9, 2019 with Mike Peterson, episode #42 of Vaping and the Mic